I dont know. Their role on Billions is the first gender non-binary character shown on American television. Sun: Which is already lopsided to begin with. Its really quite extraordinary. Sun: It was really enjoyable. Asia Kate Dillon: I agree. And I think the same thing applies when were talking about gender portrayals. Taylors gender identity doesnt get in the way of his ultimate goal. The very first time I buzzed my head I was 21 Id had short hair since I was 14 I just remember it was like 2 in the morning and I just was like, I really want to do it, I want to see what I look like and what my head shape is. And I would argue that live-action non-binary and trans characters have also done this. View agent, publicist, legal and company contact details on IMDbPro. Dillon handles the encounter with grace and without judgement; they are one of the most chill, open-hearted, and patient people/actors Ive ever met. Sun: And that really does emerge in so many different topics when weve been talking about inclusion is that these are sandboxes that are in some ways to use this overworn phrase in a genuine way a safe space to be able to explore some of these stories or identities that mainstream culture wasnt ready for yet. The star, who also identifies as gender non-binary in real life, doesn't mind answering questions about what that means. And they are a musician; many of the most famous non-binary celebrities coincidentally happen to be more musicians rather than actors, like Sam Smith, and I think Janelle Mone has identified as non-binary or gender nonconforming. This week well be learning about non-binary gender identity and exploring how film and TV represent characters that are neither exclusively male nor female. Weve long had queer villains, but were getting queer heroes, queer love interests, smart queer people and strong queer people. If youre new to the show, here at Hollywood Remixed each episode is dedicated to a single theme a type of character, storyline or identity that has traditionally been underrepresented or misrepresented in mainstream culture. Theres still not enough, so lets keep going. Im incredibly proud of Taylor as a character. The 'Billions' actor, Asia Kate Dillon, talks about their character's climb to the billion-dollar club, losing Axe, and taking on a new mentorship role. And so just coming to an understanding that a body is a body, and also male and female as biological sexes are so much more complicated even than just male and female. I've been endlessly inspired by so many in the trans community. And I was like, Oh, this wild, funny, sturdy, pink character is sort of embodying the ways that I think my gender presents, which is not a binary, its not clearly defined. No, I just had a lot of demons back then. White: I mean, I wouldnt say it looks like cisgender racial representation at all. It wasn't the time for me to come out back then. Asia Kate Dillon is a fierce actor with arresting eyes and a buzzcut, known for breakout roles including a Nazi skinhead inmate in Orange Is the New Black and, currently, a calculating hedge-fund intern on Showtimes Billions. Everyone has a gender identity, actually. That doesnt mean you should assume that persons gender identity. And that seems really radical, tucked within that very problematic representation. "I think it's important to be able to be like, 'Yes, your shoulders are broad, yes your hands are big and your voice is deep and you're really tall and people notice you, and that makes you noticeably trans, but that doesn't make you any less beautiful. All rights reserved. Its very difficult for me to dismantle it, Ill be honest. In 2017 and again, if you Google this, Im basically quoting but thats okay. Sun: Im glad you mentioned that. (Laughs.) Sign up for Yahoo Lifes daily newsletter, Who was Karl Lagerfeld? Not everyone identifies within the binary, they say. But [gender confirmation surgery] is kind of the last partit's sort of the icing on the cake. We have a gender binary-enforced society, and conversion therapy is meant to enforce that binary rather than the other way around. Angels and demons are not humans; theyre celestial beings, and so why would they conform to that? And the teaching moment didnt hit anyone over the head with this is the righteous way to be because it rang true to the characters, and I think that is a credit to the extraordinary writing we have on the show. My mom was a pop culture hound; all of my pop culture interests really derived from her and my relationship with her. In one of their interviews, they revealed that they were currently dating a man, however, chose to not divulge any further details such as his name or the duration of their relationship. Pants are pants. I love that character so, so much because one of the things that I really struggle with in terms of the way that non-binary is allowed to exist on screen is that most people chalk non-binary up to androgynous. White: Star Trek has always been about exploration and asking questions about identity and community and where we belong and how we belong. And one thing that I found really, really interesting about animation is that some folks would sort of skirt these rules, because these rules were very human-based. When did you start to get recognized as an actor?I started to get recognized when my season of Orange came out. And there is a part of me thats like, Gosh, I wish I know its historically significant and extraordinarily important, and Im really proud of it, and there is something about it that feels a little bit tainted by the fact that GLAAD doesnt qualify it as trans representation. And it really feels synchronistic to me that Taylor came into my life at a time when I was really ready to say, I have to be brave. Giving other people time is important. Your kids are nervous about school shootings heres what to say, Teen banned from prom at Christian school for wearing a dress with mesh cut-outs, People are freaking out about Britney Spears face: Such a shame. Showing Editorial results for asia kate dillon. And how would we talk about Pats gender and Pats partners differently versus when we did it then? People try with good intentions, maybe not, but they try it. I got to speak to NPR about it, and Ill just repeat something that I said there, which is like, Okay, so then if Denzel Washington can enter as an actress and Viola Davis can enter as an actor, then the Emmys themselves have shown the categories to be absurd and archaic and ultimately meaningless. But how about this: Because I know that your position has modified or evolved somewhat from 2017 and 2018, when you received back-to-back nominations for best supporting actor at Critics Choice Awards, and the Emmys allowed you to submit in the supporting actor category, and that was something that you did at the time where are you right now in terms of how you feel about this whole situation, this whole issue? So thanks for letting me (Laughs.). White: Absolutely. And so I had literally no example of a person who didnt identify as a man or a woman but hadnt changed their body. What is it like playing a nonbinary character in the hypermasculine world of Billions? Dillon, who uses the singular pronoun "they" for identification, spoke . It's a good start. It's something everyone wants, to feel understood. Abbey White: Yeah, Ive been here for a couple of months and this is our first meeting, so Im very excited about that. GQ Style: Please explain to me what you have brought in your jar. Although it has been said that Taylors wardrobe is stereotypically masculine, I dont feel that way, I think its actually neutral. Im really grateful for that, Dillon tells Yahoo Lifestyle at New York Citys Build Studio (part of Yahoos parent company, Oath), where they had dropped by for a live studio interview. It needs to happen because there is a non-binary writer whos been brought in, a consultant, a producer. Theres also the sci-fi of gender nonconforming, non-binary people arent human. I mean, obviously sci-fi is the place where you can explore, but when its the only place that you explore gender outside of cisgender identity, you literally dehumanize it. Billions season five is currently back and airing on Showtime on Sundays. It said, female, gender nonbinary. I think their character identifies as a man, Marcus, on the show. Like you just said, the Gotham Awards just announced that theyre abolishing it, the MTV Movie and TV Awards, you were the very first person in 2017 to present a gender-neutral acting category, and I believe that both the Berlin and San Sebastian film festivals have gender-neutral categories. They've spent time in prison on Netflix's Orange Is the New Black and. Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy and Cookie Statement and Your California Privacy Rights. I think the interesting thing about trans versus non-binary representation is that trans representation has arguably existed more specifically and intentionally than non-binary representation. I almost feel like as a cisgender person in other words, somebody who identifies as the gender they were assigned at birth, if Im defining that correctly it has been in some ways easier for me to understand a transgender person who still exists along the gender binary. All of it to me is a great example of how it could go. ", "Finally undergoing bottom surgery has allowed me to confidently flourish in my new body and dismantle any remaining gender dysphoria. But I do think that if I was going to redo one, I would really love to see Pat in 2021, like what would that narrative actually look like? And they came back and said, Theres never been any rule. Your casual summer style inspiration is here. Dillon: I identify as non-binary. So INSTEAD I want to be visible to queer folx who don't see people like them on their feed. If I was lying on my deathbed and I had kept this secret and never ever did anything about it, I would be lying there saying, 'You just blew your entire life,' 'You never dealt with yourself,' and I don't want that to happen. And thats what the term non-binary is about: Its more like a sphere that you can walk into, and it exists fluidly. And I think our media is really representative of how that conversation has changed. From award-winning writing and photography to binge-ready videos to electric live events, GQ meets millions of modern men where they live, creating the moments that create conversations. And I was like, Why am I so connected to this character? And then I realized that this character is upending gender norms. And theres all these different sorts of weird characters. And it was incredibly freeing and ultimately, I felt like there was nothing to hide behind. And so it is important to have those stories, but growing up, and up until honestly a few years ago, those were the only stories that existed. A woman can have a beard and be a woman, but someone can have a beard and also be non-binary. White: Oh, absolutely. But when someone is misgendering me repeatedly, even after Ive reminded them of my pronouns, then it becomes something else, and its pretty clear when that happens. But because the character I play is a neo-Nazi and white supremacist, people did not approach me on the street or say, Hey, oh my God, I like your character. [laughs] Occasionally I could tell people would recognize me and not say anything. And so, again, once somebody else opens that door, the door gets to open for other people. Youre right, its sort of this radical premise that was probably problematically intended, because this is the whole thing about comedy: Who is the butt of the joke and whats the intention and what were you trying to do? I've been very transparent about my struggles with my body, and with a society that is constantly trying to contain me and label me and define me. Thats super helpful. How incredible to have a nonbinary character show skin on television! Sun: Precisely. Most casting breakdowns specify male and female roles. Dillon: Thank you again for asking about it and letting me talk about it. Asia, thank you so much for joining us today. In 2017, "Billions" star Asia Kate Dillon, the. You unleash a fury of vile and demeaning rage that lands on the shoulders of the trans community, a community in which 40% of trans adults report attempting suicide. Thats a tricky thing. As I've lived as an openly trans person with the people I love most for many years, I did always wonder when I'd come out publicly. That also means that we can put you in dramas and comedies. Were still getting very specific visions of what it means to be non-binary, and where that person can be situated in a narrative. Are we at a place where we accept and welcome trans writers, non-binary writers? Sun: Thats so moving to me to hear, that is extraordinary. Taylor has moved around a lot across the seasons, but for the purposes of this general podcast I will have to restrain myself. Im preaching to the choir, obviously, but the more diverse your writers room is, your production team is, the more diverse your whole project is, the more accurate your representation will be. They just know that this person appears in makeup and feminine attire, and a pronoun is never used. White: Yes, exactly. Ill just say the queer community at large, but particularly and specifically trans, non-binary and gender nonconforming people. I mean, I spent so many years not understanding my own gender identity, not having the language to talk about it, and not feeling safe in many environments to talk about it. But someone where you never see their body or the body is not representative in the story of a binary necessarily, and/or someones gender identity is just man or woman or male or female, again, it really is going to be specific to the story and the character, but if its right for me, then itll be right. But I also think that sci-fi and fantasy are about places of imagination and exploration, and in the same way that animation is this place where we do not have to exist within the limits of humanness, its an incredible place to explore lots of things, things that we want to see, things that we want to be. And, as a semi-religious person who went to Catholic school, I have come to believe that God made me transgender. I think that thats one of those things where when you are describing it to that extent, I think it indicates that youre really thinking about the intention of why youre taking on something and or why youre not. Anyone can read what you share. The Ellen DeGeneres Show (2003-2023) Jane Fonda ( Grace and Frankie (2015)); Asia Kate Dillon ( Billions (2016)); guest DJ Stephen Boss. Specifically as it pertains to gender identity. This is reality for us, and all we ask for is acceptance and validation for what we say that we are. The discrimination towards trans people is rife, insidious and cruel, resulting in horrific consequences. I think, Actually, I do need to take this opportunity to engage in this conversation, because there is perhaps a bridge to understanding here that will benefit people who dont have a voice, who cant walk down the street without being told to kill themselves.. A lot of brands are saying theyre going to make gender neutral clothing. They're the least interesting things about me. And what kinds of ongoing collaborations do you have with discussing this aspect of Taylors character and their storylines? I think about the concept of the bearded lady, which has been around forever. They essentially do the thing that we often see men, male heroes, in cartoons do. They titrate their emotions in a very conscious, calculated way. I believe that I am transgender to help people understand differences. Im thinking of John Malkovichs character, who misgenders Taylor and its like, well, that makes sense in that context. But one of the reasons the show is resonating with people right now is because the show examines why we find the characteristics of charm, and flawed people, appealing. Taylor Mason (Asia Kate Dillon) has come a long way from first joining Axe Capital as an intern, working for Bobby Axelrod (Damian Lewis). I understand because so much of our world is basically coded through this very firm gender binary. "I don't think it will be too many more years," they say, "before. Again, given the context of the things that weve seen all of the characters do and what we know that theyre capable of, I think those moments certainly hit me more when you see something like that, and that was a beautiful scene, and I really loved that arc. Nothing has come my way where Im like, God, that feels really awful. And that may just be because I havent seen it, like someone might call or write into your podcast and be like, Well, you have to watch this because it exists and its awful. And then I will, and Ill be like, Oh God, that is pretty terrible.. The actor who plays Taylor from Billions wears a seamless mix of clothes (labels like menswear and womenswear need not apply) and talks Axe Capital, Trump, and playing a white supremacist. And sometimes youre just at the last door, which sounds terrible. Do they get to have a voice? They noted about being nonbinary, Its a term used by some people, myself included, who experience their gender identity as falling somewhere outside the boxes of man or woman. Everyone Is Just Scrambling: Hollywood on Edge as Writers Guild Talks Go Down to the Wire, Beef Creators Break Silence on David Choe Controversy, W. Kamau Bell Interviews Multiracial Kids in HBOs 1000% Me: Growing Up Mixed Trailer (Exclusive), Warner Bros. Studios Celebrates 100th Anniversary With Diverse Shorts Re-Creating Warner Bros. I very much do think they are. Asia Kate Dillon was born on November 15, 1984 in Ithaca, New York, USA. Thank you again. My pronouns are they/them. If it takes 20 years, I have personally failed. Sun: Yeah, it does. Lets show some skin. So now going beyond Billions and talking a little bit more about your whole career as well as the industry, in your experience and to your knowledge, how much opportunity is out there for non-binary or gender fluid or genderqueer actors to be able to also play non-binary characters? Sun: Absolutely. I dont know, Abbey, if that is way too old of a reference for you, but I was reading back through the commentary at the time Roddenberry meant it as a LGBT allegory to criticize conversion therapy and forcing somebody to be something that they dont naturally feel. Sun: I will give people a spoiler alert if I go into that. I also imagine there are a lot of people on the Billions set trying to look like finance bros.I suppose so, yeah. And while their portrayals may or may not have always been respectful, intentional, progressive, I think that this idea that we do not always live within two spaces on a gender line has been persistent. And I dont know what anyones is until they tell me. What does it mean for you to fall in love with someone, and they fall in love with you, under the assumption that you are one thing and youre actually the other? My research yielded one such example way back in 1992, so this is 30 years ago. Is that how you are?Yeah, I would say so, yeah. And even if theyre not coming with that, if youre getting non-binary actors, your vision of that character I think changes a little more because their identity can be so different from one person to the next. Its time to be brave. And if Taylor, if this fictional character can exist in this fictional world and has been brave enough to get up and get dressed and go out there into the world and be who they really are, then I can too. The creators, David and Bryan, both have children of various ages, and their kids would come home and be talking to them and say like, Yeah my friend is coming over, theyll be here at 6:00. And Brian or David would say Wait, how many people are coming? Or, They? It began as an organic conversation about their kids worlds and their kids friends, so when they were developing a character that was younger, who was an intern, it just sort of made sense to them to have that character be in this world. What is my frame of reference? Actor Asia Kate Dillon predicts that widespread scrapping of gendered entertainment categories is just a matter of time. Of course, sometimes theres fried chicken, but both always tend to have quinoa salad, orzo salad, etc.. Orange tends to have more sweets, theres a little bit more sugar on the Orange set. The Masons Doug and Taylor are somewhat estranged, but its primarily because of the clashing ambitions between these two incredibly brilliant people, but still there were moments throughout that arc where I feel like viewers got a little sense of what Taylors coming out was like for both father and child. They providevery different things. But I think about Bugs Bunny. Its learned. What does gender identity and/or assigned sex at birth have to do with the way in which we are awarding art? You get to see them as a full human being. In As You Like It, I played the 90-year-old man. This was such a pleasure. And so that is very special, but yeah, we talk about mostly where Taylor is coming from emotionally and why they are the way they are and why they are behaving the way theyre behaving and doing what theyre doing. These are excerpts from the conversation. What I can think of as problematic is when non-binary characters are written and Im not saying Ive seen evidence of this but when non-binary characters are written without anyone consulting a non-binary person, whether it be actors they are considering for the role, but frankly it needs to happen before then. And I figured, particularly when it comes to understanding gender identities along the spectrum, that I personally need some table-setting for education. I feel like I can talk to Brian and David about anything, ask them anything. Twenty years from now, will acting be more gender fluid? Can they have conversations about gender nonconformity and change maybe not only how we think about or write a character that is non-binary, but also cisgender characters. Im curious about whether you had any input in shaping that backstory, and would you be comfortable sharing whether or not any of it was informed or inspired by your own personal experience? And I think that age actually does matter in relationship to Pat. And I think this applies to lots of marginalized groups, like doing blackface was a big no-no a lot longer than doing cripface. Thats not to say that characters before who had storylines about changing genders or being forced to identify as a gender that they dont identify with arent a part of this conversation. They are not trying to incorporate a character who still ascribes to a gender that people want to force on them. In the 1950s, Christine Jorgensen was the first known person to undergo sex reassignment surgery, identifying as a woman some years after her service in World War II. Cardigan by Maison Kitsun / Shirt and pants by Agns B / Beanie by American Apparel. Lindsay very firmly knows who they are. The male/female categories uphold the gender binary, which is ultimately extraordinarily dangerous for anyone who identifies outside of it. And so that really, depending on who youre talking to, will influence how they define non-binary and also how they describe their own gender. I just had literally no example, but I also knew that she/her didnt feel right to me, but I also didnt know how to claim another set of pronouns if I wasnt changing my body, because I had a sense of what they call imposter syndrome. A voice faintly hollers in the background: Hollywood Remixed!. Dillon: Yes, certainly. ", "I'm not [transitioning] to be interesting. Not only do I think that's so boring and so predictable, it's, like, such a fraction [of my life]. The nonbinary actor, who plays nonbinary characters in Billions and the new John Wick film, wants to expand the conversation around gender identity, onscreen and off. They go by they/them. Dillon: I was told my whole life that my body meant that I was a girl and a woman, so I really couldnt conceive of how to separate my experience of myself versus what I was told I was supposed to be because of what my body looked like. It makes me feel freer than ever. And its pretty clear to me when Im engaging with people who arent coming from that place, who just arent coming from a place of love or who arent being genuine, and so because its generally fortunately for me pretty clear whos coming from where, Im able actually to put my energy into a place that feels worth it, where Im getting something out of the exchange too, versus talking to a brick wall that I know is really immovable. Good Omens is a really great example. And I would say, youve encountered them in your real life, you just dont know it. And that is a character of color in a show featuring indigenous people in a way that indigenous people havent really been represented before. This episode is inspired by Billions star Asia Kate Dillon, who will join us in the latter half of the show to talk about their groundbreaking character, how they approach their roles and why acting awards categories should be gender-neutral. I think a lot of the womens movement is perpetuating the synonymous use of woman and vagina, and not all women have vaginas, not all people with vaginas are women. And having seen the first two movies, I just said yes, before I even read the script. I dont think of Taylor as a hidden gem, but maybe they are. And so now, having the opportunity to talk about it and have it printed is extraordinary for me, and it doesnt get tiring., One particularly notable moment of explanation was when Dillon was a guest on The Ellen DeGeneres Show. It isnt just about abolishing the categories. I thought, if youre nonbinary, can you also be female? Obviously sci-fi is the place where you can explore, but when its the only place that you explore gender outside of cisgender identity, you literally dehumanize it.. Maybe the food is trying to keep within the vibe of the world. Im very curious to see what, for example, Joey Solloway, who I think is probably the most prominent non-binary creator in Hollywood they made Transparent and were a very respected indie film director prior what they will do now that they have come out specifically as non-binary and how to advocate for more voices in that space. Wayfair Huge Deal-A-Thon - Up to 60% off everything! ", "There was a physical identity of what people perceived as 'boy,' but that's not how I was feeling inside.
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